Living in the Grey
This month, we have something different for you—Our first-ever Vlog! In this Vlog, our CEO, Julia, and our Director of Justice, Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion, Danny, come together to talk about making hard decisions in the current environment. This conversation covers a lot of ground, but here are some highlights:
Bumpering the Grey Space (minute 5:00)
Risk Analysis (minute 8:10)
Collective Impact (minute 13:00)
Identity and Risk (minute 14:45)
Finding Support (minute 18:13)
Cautious Vulnerability (minute 26:30)
Grounding and Radical Reimagining (minute 28:00)
Resistance as the Revolution (minute 32:44)
Trying to find Joy and Rest (minute 36:50)
If you are making, wrestling with, or debating hard decisions, this Vlog is for you!
Transcript of Recording to follow:
Zane:
Um, alright! Hi, everyone! Welcome to the first Point b(e) Strategies Ever vlog! Um, we are joined here today by me, myself, I'm Zane Slacum, I use pronouns she and hers, and I'm the Chief Operating Officer at Point b(e) Strategies. Um, and I will be very, very lightly facilitating this conversation between Julia and Danny. Do you all want to introduce yourselves? Why don't you start? Why don't you start us off, Danny?
Danny:
Oh, okay. Hi everybody, I'm Danny Alvarez, I use they, them pronouns. I am the Director of Justice, Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion at Point B Strategies. And have been working with Point B Strategies for the last … years-ish.
Zane:
Thanks, and what about you, Julia?
Julia:
Awesome. Hey everybody, Julia here, pronouns she and hers. I am our CEO and founder. I've been with Point B Strategies since the very beginning, um, coming up on years now.
Zane:
Wonderful, thank you both. Um, and I would love for, um, you all to just share what we're here to talk about today.
Danny:
Cool.
Julia:
I can get us started, Danny. Um, so it will come as no surprise to everybody to hear that the world is a little bit of a weird and wonky place right now and as consultants that work almost exclusively in the social change space, we have the privilege Um, and the honor, and the humble challenge of hearing a lot from our clients and from the sector. About how this wonky world is impacting the communities that our organizational partners serve to… exist to serve, and also how they are being impacted as individuals and as organizations themselves. So, as we've been thinking as a company through blog posts or ways for us to kind of be in community with and share some thought leadership with all of you, our partners, we thought that pivoting to a vlog today would be an interesting new way of kind of bringing you all into the conversations that we've been hearing. As well as the conversations that we've been having. So, our hope today is that Danny and I can explore some big topics that are things that have come up a lot among you all, our clients. So, thinking about Some of the challenges that you all are facing as leaders, as well as organizations in the social change space.
So, that's what we're here to talk about today.
Zane:
Wonderful. Thanks, Julia. And why did you decide that this should be a conversation today, rather than a specific or standard kind of written blog post.
Julia:
I can start us off again. Cool. Um, so we decided to go the conversation route because one of the things that has become glaringly obvious to us is that there's nothing obvious in the world right now, and that the nuances that we are experiencing in the sector Can't really be captured by a single blog, can't really be captured by a single article. Um, and that even within our own teams, and within our own families, we are finding areas of divergence and disagreement that feel really important to kind of dig into in a more conversational space.Rather than in the written form.
Danny:
Yeah, great. I think, you know, just to kind of echo what you said and add a little bit, that this… these particular topics feel like things where there's no right or wrong, really, and it's about figuring out what makes sense for particular people in particular situations at the moment, based on The limited information that we all have, and so really having a chance to kind of talk through some of those. Those variables and factors and how we're thinking through them, as opposed to being able to write some kind of prescriptive Uh, this will work for everybody, kind of, article or blog post, as we may have around other topics. That this just feels like a particularly nuanced, um. Area to be… to be thinking through, and so we wanted to… to show some of the ways that we've been thinking and talking about them.
Zane:
Well, let's get into it. So. We have clients navigating the very real challenge of removing DEI language from their website, from their programs, from just everything that is outward-facing, um, about them. Or losing funding. So, I'm curious to hear from you both, and I will then go off-camera to see So that it can be a conversation between the two of you.
How do you just support our clients, um, in answering that question, in navigating that very real challenge?
Danny:
Um, well, I can… I can say a little bit. Um, I think when I… have been in conversations with clients, and also for context, for folks, um, that don't know me, I also work in the higher education space, and so, um, at the university that I've been working at for the last handful of years, there's been similar conversations, obviously, coming up around language shifts and titles and positions, and what we're allowed to be teaching, and… Um, student activism and how we're responding to those things at different program level, program-level decisions, and so in that space, the conversations feel a little bit different, but then similarly with our clients, we're hearing a lot of overlap around Um, just this kind of Um, this place that we're in of, do we… do we change the way that we're doing things. So that we can keep doing the work that we're doing.
Or is it actually part of the work that we're doing is about us calling it and being explicit about our values and our work and what we're doing, and really grappling with that tension of, like, do we just remove all of those things and keep doing what we're doing?
Or does that actually take away some of the value of what we're doing, or water it down too much Um, so that it doesn't feel like we're still committed to the same work, um, and I… the way that I have been engaging in those conversations is really, as I said, a little bit before, framing it as there not being a right or wrong, that there's no one way that this needs to go, that there's no obvious answer.
Um, like you said, Julia, that there's no… Like, of course right now, this is how people should be responding, and all organizations should be doing this thing, but that it's really about Um, sitting with the complicated feelings that are coming up, and trying to figure out, and really doing some of that internal work of looking back and saying, what are our values, and what do we feel like
Uh, where is there maybe room to not… not even necessarily compromise, but, um… let go of some of the things For the purpose of being able to still serve and do the work that we're trying to do. Um, are there places where we can pull back on some of our language without feeling like it's…
Now sacrificing, um, or going so far that we feel like we have lost a sense of who we are. Um, and are there things where we know that there's a hard line, right? Like, we won't do this. This is the place where we know we will have lost ourselves, but we can do this and trying to do a lot of clarifying as a team, as a staff, as a leadership group, as a organization, whatever level that conversation feels like it needs to sit at, but that there's a lot of… that kind of deep thinking, um… that needs to be happening right now without… there being a prescriptive… right way to do it.
Julia:
Yeah, Danny, I really appreciate that framing, and I think that, to me, what really stands out in that is something that is hard for me to do as a leader, and that I have heard is hard for a lot of our organizational partners to do, too, is to kind of allow yourself to live in that gray area and that gray space, that there is no right answer. And what is right for you today might change tomorrow. Or the next day, or a month down the line, and so I think one piece of that, too, is for organizations to have some grace with themselves, and to allow that space for things to be a little bit nebulous and I also really appreciate your kind of framing of thinking through also, like, what are those hard boundaries? Or what are those bumpers that you know you can't get inside or outside of? I think we encourage ourselves and our community partners to really think about, um, what do you have to lose, or what is at risk, depending on how you respond to any given situation.
So, for example, if you as an organization are being asked or told to remove certain language from your website or to pivot certain programs. We would encourage you to think about what's at risk. So, maybe what's at risk is funding. Is that a $, donor that you can live without, or is that a $ million grant that's going to fundamentally change the face of your business? So that's kind of one avenue. Another thing that might be at risk is how the community perceives you. For a lot of our partners, that's actually a greater risk than losing funding, because if you decide to make that stand and to take language down, or to change your programs. What does that say to your community? I think to Danny's point, what does that communicate, and what do you stand to lose by doing that?
Um, so it's kind of this constant need to be doing this risk assessment and this risk analysis.
Um, and I think, Danny, the other piece that I would love to hear your reflections and thoughts on, too, as our Director of JEDI, is, um, a lot of this conversation is also very wrapped up in identity. And whether that's the identity of the organization or the identity of the leader. Some organizations and some leaders don't have the privilege of hiding their DEI-ness, right? Um, if you have something in the name of your organization that outs you as working with the LGBTQ plus community, with refugees, with communities of color, with low-income communities. That's a harder thing to shield or cover up than if you don't have that in your name. If you as a leader are somebody who, um, whose identity is harder to disguise. You can't do anything about that, and so what's kind of, from your perspective, Danny, like, what's the role of privilege and identity, um, and how should we be thinking about this collectively?
Danny:
Yeah, yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, because that feels connected also to the conversation you were bringing up around risk, which I think risk really feels like one of the kind of fundamental pieces of this conversation, um, to me, in terms of how I've been thinking through it. And in two places. One, before I get into your specific question there, um, that just another place for organizations to be thinking through is that risk Um, risk looks different for people at different levels of the organization, right? So, um, a director or a leader of an organization making the decision that this is a risk that we're allowed, or I feel okay about taking. If it's putting the jobs of everybody else in the organization at risk. And this person might not need the money as much as these people, right? Then what you're doing is you're making a call about what risk you're willing to take without necessarily consulting the folks who are most going to be most significantly impacted in a negative way, if all of a sudden, the doors do close.
Right? And you're okay, maybe you're close to retirement, maybe you've got enough money for a little while, your partner's working, whatever those things could be. Um, but really thinking about it as, like. You're putting other people in position of taking a risk that maybe they're not consenting to, or they're not okay with. And how are you going to navigate those conversations internally? Right, because if you're not navigating those conversations with everybody who is involved in the risks that are being made, that's not going to feel great. Um, probably not gonna feel great, right? Um, and so I think that's… yeah, go ahead, if you had something…
Julia:
If I can just add into that, too, I mean, I think that's so… on point, and it even extends outside of the organization, right? Because if you are an organizational leader. Who is making a decision to take a risk. That jeopardizes the health of your organization, that not only impacts your staff, but also the communities that you exist to serve. So you as an individual are then making a decision to kind of stand firm on one set of values. While totally jeopardizing another set of values, which is community care and being available to and available for the community that you exist to serve.
So, again, I mean, I think, and we talk about this a lot, too, that it's this place of value is really butting heads, right? So, I love our organizational values, and I would stand behind them firmly, as I think most leaders would. And, if our organizational values jeopardize our ability to continue to exist. What do I value more? Our words and values, or the value that we bring by continuing to be able to do our work? Which is such an impossible question to wrestle with.
Danny:
Yep, yep. Yeah, I think one more piece on that before pivoting to your question around identity, because I do want to talk about that, is… the… ultimately, I feel like there's also this… just this bigger conversation, right, that is. How are we as individual organizations, thinking beyond just ourselves and thinking about the kind of collective impact that is happening right now?
Um, you know, one of the things that came up, um, at the university that I'm… I'm housed at right now, um, is this idea of, like, oh, great, well, our program's still okay, so, like, we're good. And everybody being like. What do you mean we're good? Just because our doors are still open, we just, like, half of our colleagues just got fired, or these other three programs have been demolished, or these things just shut down, like. That doesn't mean we're okay, that's impacting us, also, because we are a collective, you know, we are all people who are being impacted by these same policies and these same systems, so even if I still have a job, if my three friends don't for this… For no reason, right? For some silly reason, because we didn't get caught yet, right, is that actually okay with me, or does that actually mean I need to also be committed to this kind of collective pushback of what's happening right now And saying, yeah, even though we're okay right now, because we can change our name, right, how are we still showing up for the folks who are making different decisions than us? If you're choosing to not change your name, or your title, or shift your work at all?
How are we still showing up for you, so that we can push back together on this thing that we know actually isn't fair or equitable, or… in the kind of name of liberation or social justice, right? So I think there's also this, um. Yes, we need to be focusing on ourselves and our own individual organizations and the work that we're doing in our communities And… even if we're okay, like, how are we… how are we doing this kind of collective work and thinking about the impact on everybody else?
Julia:
Yeah. Yeah.
Danny:
So, yeah, to shift a little bit to the thing that you brought up, I think, um, you know, that's a thing that like you said, we've been talking and thinking a lot about, and um, yeah, I think it's really important to think about that idea of the kind of privilege of who has the ability to make those changes, right? When we're thinking about, um, do we drop DEI from the title of this position. You know, if it's a… if it's a primarily white organization that doesn't do primarily DEI work, but has a couple DEI positions.
And your ability to change those titles and keep doing the work you're doing, great. If it's a primarily POC or other marginalized group running work specifically with that community, and all of your work is oriented around a particular group or community.
A little bit trickier, right? And so, um, really thinking about that as a huge piece of this kind of risk assessment is who actually has access to these kinds of changes. And again, in thinking about this as a collective problem, right, if all of the organizations that are primarily serving folks of color, immigrants, low-income folks. Queer and trans folks, right, are the ones that are having least ability to change their outward expression of the work they're doing. And the folks who are having more access to those chefs are… other, right? Then what does that say also about who's gonna be able to continue doing this work? And how are we working together to make sure that that's not happening in that way?
Um, well, it's a little bit different, but just to share a specific example of how this plays out in other spaces. Um, I was having a conversation with a friend around, um, gender and transness and pronouns and, um, you know, thinking about. What it's like to be, um. Talking about kids who are trans on… in social media platforms And my friend saying, oh, I just feel so worried about this friend of ours who's using, like, talking about their trans kiddo on Facebook, and isn't that, like, too risky to be doing right now, because Shouldn't you be not saying that on social media? Because what if people see that you're talking about having a trans kid, and how that's gonna… you know, impact them as they're growing up, and I was like, they use they-them pronouns, like… People know they're trans. Like, I use they-them pronouns. People know that I'm trans when they meet me. And so, I don't have the luxury of not doing that, right? When I walk into a space. Being perceived one way as one thing, but if I'm using my pronouns or have them on my name tag, then I no longer have the ability, right, to all of a sudden just decide to not be trans in that moment. And, um, and so really thinking about this idea of, like, yes, it's about safety, and it's about protection.
And some people have access to that by being able to take a certain thing off of their title, right? You can choose to put on your name tag, your name, and your pronouns. And your title, and not put DEI consultant, right? But I can't choose to put my name and my pronouns and not be seen as trans in that moment. And so, again, that kind Um, thinking about that both as who has the ability to kind of I don't know, not be seen as visibly doing… doing this work, or living this work.
Right? Um, and also that… We need people to be doing both of those things, right? So going back to the idea of, like, there's no one right or wrong way to do it.
We need folks who are saying, yes, I'm going to continue doing this work for this community. And folks who are gonna say, I'm still doing that work. I'm just calling it something else, and both of those decisions are going to be happening. And so I think, ultimately, to me, Julia, there's also this part of it that's, like.
Yes, being what you said around grace, and grace around our own… how we're navigating these moments and knowing that it's hard, and that we're all trying to figure this… hard thing out, and that other people are also doing that, and so how are we also being, um, checking in about our own judgments about how other people are choosing to show up in this moment? Okay, so… not saying, oh my gosh, I can't believe you took that out of your name or your title. You must be a whatever, how could you do that? You're giving up on, you know, whatever. But really.
Kind of honoring that people are making really hard decisions. Based on really hard options. And how do we kind of trust Trust that they're doing… doing what they need to do in that moment, and withhold our own judgments on that. And still be able to check in about the decisions that we're making, and hoping that we're also not being judged for those decisions.
Julia:
That's a beautiful summary, Danny.
Zane:
Um, okay, so… Just to ask another question, um, of you both, um, leaders And what you just shared, Danny, that leaders are currently having to make very hard decisions. They are making really impossible decisions. In these impossible times. So what advice do you two give to them as they are navigating making those impossible decisions?
Julia:
Yeah. I mean, I think some of it is what Danny just shared, um, and I think what I would add is maybe kind of also a summary of that first discussion that we had, um, which is. Trust yourself. And don't make these decisions alone. Um, I think everything that we talked about in that first question, um, or that first conversation, really circles back to All of the decisions that leaders are making right now are going to have an impact, whether your decision is to do something or to not do something. Both of those are decisions, and they both have responses, and they both have, um, kind of outcomes and potential fallout. And so, making sure, one, that we, as leaders, acknowledge that both decision and no decision are a decision. All of those options are decisions.
Um, and two, please know that you don't have to make these decisions alone, and that you shouldn't be making these decisions alone and whether it's through the context of doing a more community-based risk assessment and really bringing other folks to the table to make sure that it really is a nothing-about-us-without-us conversation.Um, or whether that means, uh, finding other leaders outside of your organization who can serve as thought leaders and thought partners with you. Um, calling trusted advisors. You don't need to be making these decisions in a vacuum, um, or in a silo.
Um, I think one thing that has felt really… interesting and unique to me about this time that we are in right now is that everybody really is being impacted. I don't know a single… well, maybe there's one demographic identity that's not being dramatically impacted by particularly the decisions of the current political administration, but beyond, essentially, the very wealthiest billionaires in this country and in this world, everyone is being impacted..Um, which is kind of a strange way to be in existence, because I think in some ways it offers an opportunity to create some humility around these challenges. Um, because nobody is gonna come out of this unimpacted. And so the more that we as leaders and as members of communities can be honest about our challenges. Can ask for help, can be willing to say, hey, I'm wrestling with this, and I could really use some support, the better? Because we really are all going through something right now.
As we talked about, we're all going through very different things, but everybody and every organization is being impacted right now. Um, and so I think that's kind of maybe my biggest piece of advice, is to remember that you are not alone in this. And what you are up against might feel really different than what other people are up against. But we're all up against something right now. And so if we have the willingness and the authenticity and the vulnerability to say to each other. Here's what I'm up against. What are you up against? How can we be there with each other, for each other, to help get through this together?That would be kind of my advice.
Danny:
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think I agree with you, Julia. Um, I know I agree with you.
Uh, you're very smart. And I think the things that I would add are, um, it… In addition to… I don't know how to… I guess just, like, having, like. Having the right people in your corner, I guess. And if you don't feel like you have those people. Trying to find them, um, because what you're saying, I think, is really important that people are talking to each other right now, that people are… Um, in community, where they're asking how other people are navigating that, that they're having space where they're able to kind of process through these hard decisions, and sitting with, uh.
You know, I really want to do this thing, this feels like the right thing for me, and… these people don't, or this person's giving me a hard time, or I don't know how that's gonna impact my staff, or, like…
You know, having space to be… navigating this in community with people, going through similar things.
And that it feels like it's people who you can trust, have your… like, deeply see you and the work you're trying to do, because I also feel like this is a time when there's a lot of people giving a lot of advice.
Um, coming from their own place, right? And so people being like, I know what to do right now, this is what you do. And… and not necessarily understanding, um, the… the nuanced things that people are really grappling with.
Julia:
Yeah.
Danny:
Um, but feeling like they have some advice to share, right? And so, um… really trying to figure out, how do I make sure that the people that are in my corner that I'm having these really, really vulnerable, really scary, really important conversations with.
That they really see me and understand, um, what I'm juggling. Um, and again, if you don't feel like you have those people, that's where I think that, like, gut check, that trusting yourself is really important of, like. You know, I really hear what you're saying, and I know you're coming from a good place, and I love that you're giving me advice.
And you've, you know, that probably would work really well for somebody, and, like, if it's just not sitting right, trusting that there's a reason why it's not sitting right, and then figuring out who else do I need to be pulling into this conversation right now, so that I have those other perspectives coming in, right? That if it's… If you're hearing from people, of course you change your name, of course you change your name. That's what you do, right? And if you're still sitting with this, like.
I don't know, like, that doesn't sit, right, with me. Like, this is the core of my work, or… I feel like I'm, like… giving up what we've been fighting for for years, or, you know how many people have been doing this work so that we can call ourselves
What we call ourselves, like, if you're still sitting with that, there's a reason why it's not sitting well, and… Who else can you pull in? That can help you sit with that, you know, that discomfort, that tension that you're feeling.Um, and trying to find… find people if you don't have them, right? So I think there's something there that feels really important right now Um, and… and you know, I've been in those spaces. You and I… have been in those spaces, right, where we're sitting and we're like, oh, this is so interesting, and, like…
How weird to hear these people that I thought I would have aligned more with for identity reasons or whatever, right? Like. I would have thought we'd be more aligned around how we're thinking about this, and we're just not, and so what does that mean? Or… How are they saying that in such an uncomplicated way, right? Don't they… don't they get that it's more complicated, and…
Um, and so really, yeah, I think just, like, continuing to push folks to find people Um, find people to be in conversation with, and trusting… trusting themselves around what's… Um, yeah, like, how it's… how it's sitting.
Julia:
Yeah. Yeah, I love that addition, Danny, and so I think what I'm hearing us both say is to kind of be open to being in a space of… I'll call it, like, cautious vulnerability, right? Like, it doesn't have to be, like, heart ripped wide open, but, like, a willingness to be vulnerable. Um, while also carrying at the same level a curiosity. And that's, I think, a curiosity with our own selves of, huh.
Why is this sitting this way with me? And also a curiosity with each other, and whether it's because you've come asking for advice, or you've come to give advice. Rather than just jumping right in with, I know the solution for you, Danny, and what you should do is… Um, I mean, there's a time and a place for that.
I'm Danny's older sister, so I know that. There's a time and a place for that, but in this time. Having that curiosity of, Danny, tell me more of your context. Tell me more about what you're wrestling with. Here's how I'm approaching this situation. Do you think that would work for you?
Danny:
Yeah.
Julia:
And being more in that space of curiosity alongside that vulnerability, rather than always being in a place of. Advising, um, might kind of shift some of that narrative.
Danny:
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I think that feels… like, that feels right to me. Yeah, there's one other thing that was coming up for me, um, just around… Um… Like, I feel like now… you know, not now more than ever, because, like, always.
You know, it's good to be grounded, but really, I feel like now is a time to do some, like, deep grounding, um… And really, like we talked about before, right, that clarity around vision and purpose and, like, deeper purpose, and…Um, what's the impact that we're trying to achieve, and how are we going to be able to do that, right? What if… if our goal is this.
And we've been doing it this way, do we have to do it that way? Or is there actually other ways we can still meet that goal, right? If… If what we're trying to do is this, and we can no longer do it the way we've been doing it. Let's be creative, right? And so this, like, deep grounding around purpose. And coupled with this, like. I feel like now is a time for creativity and visioning and being really generative and expansive in how we're thinking about the work that we're doing.
Um, and so, yeah, we've been doing this work in a really particular way for a long time, and… Do we need to do it that way? Right? What are the other ways we could be doing this? Let's be creative, let's be thoughtful, let's
Imagine alternative ways to do this. And, um, you know, I was talking with a group of our colleagues the other day just around what we feel like the sector could be, uh, leaning more into right now, and we were talking about this, like, deep visioning, right? Like this sector was built because there was a gap, right? That, like, our social system created an immense gap in meeting the needs of the majority of the people in this country. And that's how the sector was built, and so we were built also as a response to something that wasn't great. So, this isn't maybe the best way to go about this work in the first place.
So let's think of this as a really awesome opportunity to also reimagine what could this work look like? What does it look like to be doing more collaboration, or being more creative in the ways that we're approaching our same goals, our same visions, our same, you know, purpose work.
Um, but are there other routes that we could be taking, um, to avoid some of the barriers and blocks that are feeling like We're getting stuck, right? And so not just thinking, oh man, now I'm gonna have a $, gap in money from one funder that I lost. So how do I make $, to just literally plop into that place, but instead could we do something different? Do we need that $,? Do we need more than that? What if we just did this thing differently? What are other creative ways that we could imagine our work Um, that… that might still be doing…What we want to be doing, what we need to be doing right now, um, but in different and more… I don't know, more creative, more interesting, more radical ways.
Julia:
Yeah, I love that you brought that up, Danny. I mean, it's… yeah, it's a time for radical reimagination, um, and that's hard to do when you're also up against budget deficits and staffing challenges, and burnout, and like, levels of community need that are through the roof. Um, and so I think maybe that's another piece of… or words of wisdom to… leaders, too, is We know that it's harder than we're making it sound.
And it's an opportunity, and it's an opportunity for all of us to come together and do some of that radical reimagining, and to think differently about how we support ourselves.
And our organizations and our communities. Um, and I think another thing, too, that… when you were talking at Spurred a reminder for me to say that I would also encourage all of us to remember or to think about This is not a blip in the radar. I mean, we… this is our reality now, for right now, and maybe for a long time.
And so I would also really encourage folks to, um, not be only looking for band-aids and not be only looking for short-term fixes, because to Danny's point, if we spend all of our time trying to find $, bricks. To fill those $, holes in the wall. All we're going to be doing is filling those little… those little holes. Um, when what we need to be thinking about is, why is this wall here in the first place?
What's on the other side of that wall, and how do we get there?
Um, and again, it's easier said than done, and it's gonna take all of us being willing to come together to say this is impossible. How do we do this together? How do we think differently together? And how do we really leverage each other's superpowers Um, to get through this, because it's… it's… Not going away quickly, and so we need to have that long-range vision, and we need to have that radical reimagination
Danny:
Yeah. Also, just on that note, Julia, I think… everybody has a different role in Revolution, right? And that's… Because we all can't do the same thing, and we shouldn't be doing the same thing, and so also just, like.
Like you said, I think it's important to think about Um, not… not every organization knows… needs to go through a deep visioning process to imagine a radical new way to do this work, right? Some organizations need to keep their doors open, and keep their staff being paid, right? And keep serving their communities that are, like you said, right? Like, I have no capacity to think creatively right now.
I literally need that $, so that I can pay my… whoever, right? So, some people are going to stay there for the next… who knows how long? And that needs to be okay, and what that means is that some people who are not in that position and have the capacity and the space and privilege and access to that creative visioning space.
Can do that work for other people, right? That if organizations are able to engage in a… beautiful visioning, you know, generative visioning session with each other, and come up with some really awesome interesting, creative ways to do this, and share that with other people.
That's okay, right? Not every single organization needs to do that work.
And not everybody can. And so really, again, trying to lean into this idea that, um, there are different roles for different people, and at this point, that's going back to that grounding, right? If you're one of those people, or those leaders, or those organizations.
That has space and capacity to be engaging in that. How do you step into that and think of that as, this is our contribution to this moment right now, is that we are… we can, we do have the ability to say.
We're actually closing our doors for a month, and we're gonna focus on this internal, deep visioning grounding work, because we know that's going to impact and benefit the entire sector, right? And we have the privilege to be able to still pay our staff. And take a week off of work, and do this really deep work that will benefit everybody, right?
If you're in that position, leaning into that, recognizing that, and being able to think about that. And if you're not, right? Being okay with that, giving yourself some grace, and… and trusting that you're doing the work you need to do right now, right? And again, just going back to the idea of. We are all making decisions in an unideal situation, and… Um, and we're gonna… and those decisions will change. And shift, and… you'll make a different decision in a month, and a different decision in a year, um, and… all of those decisions need to happen so that you can get to the next one, um, and so just being really patient. And… and really trying to, again, like, root back to that, like, what is the unique… um, unique thing that we can be… doing right now to be contributing to this kind of collective. Collective effort to figure this out.
Julia:
Yep. Yeah. Yeah, and maybe also just… friendly reminder to all of us. That continuing to show up to do community-based work, or to do social change work is an act of resistance right now. And so, just the fact of showing up to work Every day is an act of resistance. And if that is, quote, all that you do. You're still doing something. You're still contributing to, um, this movement, you are contributing to our need for change.
And you are contributing to the health of our communities. So, again, we'll just keep circling back to Resistance and revolution are going to look and feel different for all of us at any given moment on any given day. Um, and just remembering that continuing to show up to do the work is an act of resistance.
And that we're grateful to be your partners in this work.
Zane:
Thank you both for that conversation. You were right, it filled with so much nuance, and there's so much to unpack.So, I appreciate both of you for, um, sharing your thoughts and your advice.Um, and I'm curious… You know, since showing up is an act of resistance, and showing up is hard. Um, are there ways that the two of you are taking time to rest. Recharge and find joy while… navigating all of this, so that you can actually show up. And show up to do the work?
Julia:
Zane, you promised us we were skipping this hard question. I think rest and rejuvenation and restoration and all of those are words that Zane just shared are hard for me on a good day. And so, when we are in the type of world that we are in, um, it becomes exponentially more difficult for me to remember that I need to take care of myself in order to keep showing up and taking care of, um.
Our communities. Um, it is something that I think about a lot, even if it's not something I do a lot of.
And I guess I will say, for me. Things that bring me joy recently. I've had the privilege of seeing my family. I was just back in Michigan and got to see Danny and their beautiful kiddos and my parents, and that was on the heels, for me, of an almost two-week trip to Kenya with our dad which was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for me to… to go on an adventure like that with our dad, while also being there to support a long-time client of ours that does refugee resettlement work all across the world.
Um, so finding those opportunities to blend, um, restoration with the good work, um, continues to be kind of my fake approach to my own self-care. Um, but they are helpful things that fill my cup. Um, spending time with my community. Spending time walking around in my neighborhood and enjoying that spring is springing in Denver, and every day that I go for a walk, there's a new flower, or a new tree, um, and just trying to ground in and be grateful in the fact that The cycles of nature continue, and that's inspiring, right? The world keeps on turning, and things keep on changing, and…
Um, we won't be in this forever. Um, so that, I guess, is bringing me some hope and bringing me some inspiration. Um, I will also say, as cheesy as it sounds. The team at Point B Strategies gives me a lot of hope, and gives me a lot of inspiration to keep showing up and doing this work. Um, we had a really challenging staff meeting yesterday, where we talked through, kind of, the state of the world, and And the state of all things, and I continue to be amazed by how we find silver linings with and for each other. And how we keep finding creative ways to show up for ourselves and each other, um, as well as the communities that we are here to serve. This team constantly reminds me to reground in our purpose and to reground in those most marginalized voices that we exist to really uplift.
So those are some of the things that I'm focusing on right now.
Danny:
It's a good list. Yeah, I also… ask this question to people and hate when people ask me. Um… But I think, generally, rest is also challenging for me. Um… And… I think joy is easier, mostly because I take a lot of pictures of my kids, and looking back at them is a pretty easy way to feel joyful, so it's, like… you know, I can open my phone and look at pictures and be like, oh my gosh, that was so cute, oh, I forgot we did that, oh my gosh, that was really fun, wow, look how cute they are, oh man, that food was good, like, it's a really…
Um, it's a really easy way for me to kind of remind myself that in the grand scheme of things, there's still… every day there is something happening in my life that is, like.
Cute or sweet, or… like, a moment to remember, I guess? Um, and so for me, that's, like, a pretty easy… easy thing for me to access is, you know, if I'm feeling… stressed if I'm feeling overwhelmed, if I'm feeling hopeless, or, you know, any of those kinds of things that come up
When we're navigating the kinds of things that we're navigating, being able to just, like, look at my phone and flip back through pictures from the last week and be like, oh my gosh, I forgot about that, like… you know, moment when my -year-old was scootering down the driveway, and who knew that they could scooter, and all of a sudden, they're like, you know, whatever, just those kinds of things, that's a really easy thing for me to access for joy.
Um, and yeah, I think, like. You know, being… trying to be thoughtful about breathing, and… drinking water, and making sure I'm eating things that feel good, and just, like continuing to take care of my body in those ways that I know I know are important and impact my ability to do this work for the long run and long haul, and… for me to be healthy and feel like I can keep showing up to work is… you know, I'm very physically affected by things, and so having headaches and chronic pain and… Um, you know, those kinds of things that I know I can make better if I'm doing the things that I need to do.
Um, so yeah, I think, like, trying to remember to just do those things, and the more mindful I can be about those things. The more I feel… yeah, like, able to actually show up and… Um, think about… hard stuff.
Zane:
Well, thank you both for answering that very hard question. I know the last one was the hardest for the two of you to answer, so appreciate you doing so. Um, and thank you to everyone for tuning in to our first blog. Who knows how it will be received, but thank you all for showing up. Um, and for, um, and thank you to Danny and Julia for sharing, um, your beautiful brains, as well as being really Um, open and honest and transparent about these pieces of information, so I really appreciate you both, and I appreciate all of you who tuned in and gave us a watch, so…
Thank you all, and goodbye!
